Features regression bug? (Win7)

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pmikep

Active Member
As in my previous post, I'm trying v1.5.0.5840 on Windows 7 SP1 iso.

The last time I seriously used NTLite was in May. At the time, I was experimenting with getting WMC to work. At that time, NTLite's Features Removal was breaking Windows 7. But then I tried a quick September build and I recall posting (In the old forum?) that Features was fixed.

(1.4.0.5537 stable, per my post on September 4. See https://www.ntlite.com/forum/discussion/comment/8198/#Comment_8198 )

But now it seems broken again. (I noticed someone complaining about it for a Win10 build, saying he had to leave fax and internetprintingclient enabled.)

https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/another-features-problem-i-am-facing.82/#post-708

So, to begin, I first made a new vanilla base iso with just the Convenience Rollup using 5840.

I took that and used NTLite to do some major surgery on that iso.

I took out the two XPS items in Features Removal. I left in IE8.

When I tried to remove IE8 in the running Windows 7, I got our old message that "An error has occurred. Not all of the features were successfully changed."

Rats.

Preset attached.
 
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Thanks. When I have time (I shouldn't be playing with NTLite now), I will compare two different Presets to see if it's a quirk in the UI or if the xml's are actually different.

In the meantime, am on my 6th iteration trying to get Features Removal within Win7 to work. (Update: Just tried #6. Features removal worked. Now trying sfc /scannow.) 2nd Update: /scannow is now reporting that it found problems and repaired, but running it again gives the same message. (So apparently the files are not fixed.) Still, that's better than usual, because usually on the 2nd run of /scannow, it reports a corrupted file and that it can't repair it.

I should probably stop while I'm ahead and use this Preset for a Spring-cleaning Fresh install of Win7.
 
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Okay, for grins, I took my last working Preset and enabled Recommended. I thought perhaps with the combination of Recommended and Features enabled in Compatibility, that /scannow would work flawlessly.

It didn't. In fact, it made /scannow worse. (When I ran it a second time (after it said it repaired stuff) it came back saying that it couldn't repair.)

So apparently I am still removing things that Windows can't put back in. (Tablet PC and Language Pack were removed via the Preset.)

Well, I never used /scannow until I started testing NTLite builds. So not a big deal.
 
The use of SFC is useful when a file is damaged or missing, to detect it and restore from de winsxs backup, if an unneeded file has been removed but some leftover or related file isn't, errors will appear in the log/results.

I never mind about SFC, i have to keep it because is necessary for ms installers.
 
FWIW, here is my best Preset so far. It allows Features to remove items from within Windows 7. Perhaps it would be easiest for nuhi to simply freeze the Feature items that I didn't remove when "Features" is checked in Compatibility?
 

Attachments

  • 6.This is old 3 with Recommended enabled then disabled. Features worked. scannow half worked.xml
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Your AMD comment brings up something. I had used NTLite to trim down another desktop in the house. It is also an AMD based Win7 64 HP. There's something about AMD versions of Win7 where Freecell doesn't work right if you use "Reuse Driver cache." (I think that's what tripped it.) So it might be that other Windows things don't work quite the same on AMD platforms compared to Intel.
 
IT would be a sh*t to track down because it looks like you are on the older amX chipsets etc, wonder if the problem occurs on fmX and am4 :confused:
 
In case anyone is wondering why I fuss with letting Windows uninstall IE instead of doing it via NTLite: Well, in the past, I've observed that some of my programs (like Magix Movie Edit Pro) uses parts of IE to download updates in their software. So I'm playing it safe by leaving IE in during install and then I immediately remove IE using Windows 7 Features. It seems that using that method leaves some vestiges of IE in Windows. For example, even tho I used Windows to remove IE, I still have an "Internet Options" in my Control Panel.

I vaguely remember nuhi acknowledging this. Maybe his removal method does the same thing now.
Update: I took my previous Preset and removed all the Feature stuff from it, both under Features and in the corresponding Components section. (Which I find a bit confusing. But hey.) The "Internet Options" control panel is still there. So good for nuhi that he separated Siamese Twins here.


I also do it this way in case WMC needs parts of IE to download the TV Guide.
 
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Magix are a pain in the bum, you gotta download bootstrappers instead of the full file. I use the old sony versions. On my w7 pro it only shows IE8, not bits of it. If ntlite allows it just remove IE UI if you havnt already. Then again keeping all of IE wont really hurt and your install is nice and slim anyway. I dont mind a compromise if it is necessary. :)
 
Well, I'm from the old days of HFSlip and Fred Vorck's project with WnNT. Fred was upset that M$ had integrated IE into Windows and took it upon himself to remove IE, nlite-style. Fred's website used to say something like "Think you're safe by not using IE in Windows? Think again."

His point was that IE, being integrated tightly into Windows, opened you up to all sorts of attacks.

It might be that removing IE by using Windows Features still leaves too much of IE around. In which case, NTLIte would be the better choice for removal.

Would be instructive to hear nuhi's thoughts on this.
 
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For when nuhi has nothing else to do, here are three Presets to compare. The latest one (11) has all the Feature components removed and to my surprise, I was still able to remove XPS stuff via Windows 7 Features Removal okay. The middle one (6) is with all the Feature components in place and, not to my surprise, I was able to removed IE8 (and other stuff) from Windows 7 via Win 7 Features Removal as expected.

The one labeled #5 is curious. I was in the process of adding back Feature components to see which was critical to allow Features Removal to work in Win7. Given my success with #11, it seems like it is a combination of things that are either necessary - or that have to be removed - in order for Win7 Features Removal to work.
 

Attachments

  • 11.based on 10.IE8 Features taken out.Features worked.xml
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  • 6.This is old 3 with Recommended enabled then disabled. Features worked. scannow half worked.xml
    35.3 KB
  • 5.adding back more stuff.Features still fails.xml
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There is no such "Win 7 Features Removal", only disabled.

As you quoted Fred Vorck:
pmikep said:
"Think you're safe by not using disabling IE in Windows? Think again."

His point was that IE, being integrated tightly into Windows, opened you up to all sorts of attacks.

It might be that removing IE by using Windows Features still leaves too much of IE around. In which case, NTLIte would be the better choice for removal.

Would be instructive to hear nuhi's thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

And if you think that nuhi sometime has nothing else to do (testing many win versions like 7, 8 & 10 home & pro, x86-x64 bug reports/presets received by email, getting ready for the next win 10 RS4, giving an answer about NTLite in other forums, etc. i think that's overwhelming), think again.
 
Interesting on "Removal" really only being "Disabled." I thought that after the M$ anti-trust hearings over WinNT in our Congress, M$ might have changed its mind, making removal possible in Win7.

As for nuhi not having anything to do, I was joking. I know he stays very busy with NTLite. (Were it me, I would take vacations, to take a break every now and then. I know I need to take a break after about a week of playing with NTLite on my own system.)
 
I am pleased to report that my last Preset (updated to keep TV support, and updated with some updates to the .wim for driver installation problems) is working very nicely (so far) as my 2018 Spring Cleaning reinstall of Win7 64 HP. I'm especially surprised since I ripped out all of IE8 in the Preset but Features still allows me to remove/disable Windows Fax & Scan.

WSUS added 55 Security Only updates. (Although, curiously, after rebooting and running WSUS again, it added a couple more.) WMC is working.

Also curiously, when I ran AMD's chipset updater, it didn't think I had a RAID driver installed. Obviously it was installed, since I could see my non-OS RAID drives. Since the AMD RAID driver is such an odd ball thing, I'm not worried about this.

The Library folder keeps popping up in Explorer. So far I can get rid of it by running a live NTLite with the Library disabled in one of the settings.

But as of today (one day) it's looking lean and mean. Next comes the hard part of reinstalling - and customizimg - many years' worth of Applications. (I hope I can get my Dragon voice files to import.)

BTW, I had a brainstorm (brwinwave in the UK) and thought it would be clever to update my old partion Win7 using this new NTLite. That way I wouldn't have to reinstall all my Apps. But I an error message about having to set a flag in the boot.wim to 9. Might be because I had done a live NTLite on that partition and stripped too much out?
 
About the Flag 9 thing: It turns out that in my "base" Win7+Convenience Rollup, I had let NTLite trim the image. It took out too much. Meaning that it took out Setup version of .wim. (.wim 2.) You need that if you're going to do an upgrade to Windows. (I hadn't checked the Host/Refresh button in Compatability because I thought that was a Win10 thing only. (Because of the word "Refresh."))
 
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Definitely qualify for Senior Moment. Something changed with my eyes a few weeks ago. Have to squint to read the text on the NTLite GUI.
 
OO, not good. Book an appointment with an Optician, they wil find anything wrong. My eyes give me problems too. Change the display size to 125% helps a bit. I should have got a screen with a larger dpi pitch size. This 24" 1920x1080 screen has smaller images than an old 1680x1050. I will check that an get a larger pitch when im up for a new screen.
 
So, here's an interesting "factoid" on sfc /scannow.

I've been updating my friend's Win7 computer. (Win7, 64, H.P.) As of December 2016, it had been updated to SP1 and receiving regular Windows updates.

I restored it to that state (December 2016) and used NTLite Live to remove a few things. (Powershell, MSMQ, Language Pack, etc.) Then I ran WSUS Offline on it, with Security Updates only.

I tried sfc /scannow on it today and on the first run I got the usual "sfc found some corrupted files and repaired them."

Now, when I run sfc /scannow on MY Win7 desktop, where I removed more stuff from Windows and did it pre-install, I get that sfc message too after the first run.

When I run sfc /scannow again (after sfc said it fixed the files) I usually get a message saying that sfc found corruption but could NOT fix the files.

However, on my friend's computer, when I ran sfc /scannow a second time, it said everything was okay.

So, not a good experiment since I don't know if sfc /scannow doesn't work as well on my computer because 1) I removed more components or 2) if it's because I removed them pre-install.

But it might point to the latter, that it might be better (better in the sense that sfc /scannow plays better) to remove components after Windows is installed and running.
 
SFC may be telling the truth and maybe it isnt. Its possible it would be happier with live removals or removals from a captured image. I have never run sfc on a normal install or a shrunk install. What i look at is an install stable and do my programs run without problems. If it is stable i am happy.
 
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