Host Refresh won't let me keep Files, Apps and Settings

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pmikep

Active Member
Win 10 Core 64-bit 1909

NTLite 2.0.0.7596

I just tried a Host Refresh, with 1909 iso on a 1909 Host.

I got a message that I could not keep my files, apps and settings. See screenshot.

Yikes!

An older version of NTLite did a painless Host Refresh a few months ago, on a 1903 Host going up to 1909.

Refresh Error Message.jpg
 
I wonder if I have to enable "System Reset for Windows" under DISM options under Compatibility? (I would think that it would auto-Check itself for Host Refresh if it were needed.)
 
Hi Mike,

yes, I noticed the same on 1909 and 2009, it's because Microsoft is using 1903 and 2004 bases for the ISOs, while the feature upgrade bump is "just" an integrated hotfix, fully in effect only after install.
Meaning your 1909 host is detecting an older 1903 ISO and does not support downgrades.

Will check if the order of integration or something can be done to bypass that.

Thanks.
 
The proven method also would be to uninstall the KB4517245 (1909->1903) or KB4562830 (2009->2004), do the refresh, then return it back.
Of course if you resetbased or cleaned the host, then that is not possible.

I think we'll have to wait for an official ISO with the feature update fully baked in, or make one yourself by installing the image in a virtual machine, updating, capturing, sysprep generalize and replacing .\Sources\Install.wim

I remember this being the issue with 1903/1909 and then suddenly wasn't, probably the official ISO was out.
 
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Thanks for the quick reply. Whew! Glad it wasn't me. (I've been removing Windows10Upgrade folder, trying builds without new KB's, etc. to see if I was doing something wrong.)

KB4517245 is still on my system. So I might try your trick later when I gather back some energy.

The capturing stuff is way beyond me. I would have to take my desktop to G.B. and ask Clanger to do it for me.

How often does MS refresh ISO's? And do they announce when they do? I got mine from their Win10 Upgrade tool, which downloads an ISO for you. I did that in February. (Could NTLite fetch the latest for users when doing Refreshes?)
 
I've seen you all talking about that Capture tool. (Can't remember the name just now. GX...?) I think it's easier to fly to G.B.

Is there a tutorial here on "How to Capture and Prepare an Image for Dummies"?

Update: Found it in another thread: gimagex
 
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not yet pmikep but there will be. GImageX that tool is called, its just a GUI.
or i can walk you through it im pms if you want. :)
 
Tnx. When I started this round of Refreshing, I noticed that the update list was a lot shorter than last time. Only 4 updates - Adobe Flash (don't need, since I removed Flash with NTLite), new Service Stack, NET 3.5 & 4.8, and the Cumulative Update - which is buggy and I don't install. So, apparently, the 25 or so updates from last Refresh have been subsumed into the Cumulative Update.

So perhaps I'm better now with those, than I would be without them?

As long as Win10 is behaving itself, I will probably wait until - if? - MS delivers a good CU. (Where Woody says no DefCon.) And then I'll revisit this Refresh thing.
 
I'm pretty happy with my current 1909. Comdo's task bar icon disappeared - but came back after running Comodo in Admin. (What's up with that?) And I came across a funky problem with .opus files from my SmartPhone, where Win10 won't let me rename them. (But my Win7 box will.) Seems to be a permission problem.

As I mentioned above (I think), I just updated this box to the latest SS and the latest NETFramework 3.5 & 4.8. Let's see what that screws up.

(I do have to reboot Win10 about once every six days. Some kind of memory issue, where TaskManager starts using 14% CPU and lots of RAM. On my Win7 box, the move to NETF 4.8 stopped that.)
 
open Everything(voidtools) from Power Run, search for your files and rename. you might be abble to use 7zip file manager instead, again from PR.
 
Hmm... I'm still fighting a Host Refresh problem for my 1909. (I am trying to refresh 1909 with 1909.) The problem is that the Refresh won't let me keep my personal files and apps.

Clanger says that I should capture an image as a work around. That might be Plan B someday.

For today I just tested a fresh "refresh" of Win10 1909 from MS. Its files are dated 10/2020. It is version 18363.1139. So it appears that MS finally created a stand alone version of 1909. (As opposed to 1903 with a KB update.) Or so I think. This article confuses me about this.

Anyway, I installed this latest iso, un-NTLite'd, in a VM. Then I removed some Features and then I used the same iso to run Setup from within Win10. Lo and behold (sorry, non-native speakers - that's a really antiquated expression, showing surprise) - the Refresh allowed me to keep my files!

So, it appears that I have done something to my current running version of 1909 that is preventing this latest iso from letting me keep my files.

It could be the heavy 'Liting, although I was able to refresh last time on a 'Lite'd 1909.

It could be Comodo beta.

It could be Sledgehammer, disabling WU. (?)

It could be abbodi's Telemetry script, disabling a bunch of things. (?)

It could be me turning off too many services.

I don't think it's an NTLite problem. But posting here in case anyone has any ideas of what I can try. (Aside from capturing an image. :) )
 
FWIW, my current version of Win10 is 18363.418. Seems to me that 1833.1139 (above) is a later version and should be able to Refresh and keep my files and apps. So probably just me.
 
capture is one of the easiest things to do and ntlite works really well with a captured image. i plan on doing a captured ltsc in dec/jan just so it got it if i ever need it. i will walk you through it in pms, holler when you are ready :)
 
So, after about an all night NTLite-like Scavenger Hunt last night, trying to find the one file that would allow me to keep my files and apps during a refresh my old 1909 with a newer 1909, I finally gave up and I did a Host Refresh using Win10 2004. (Which might have been the better choice in the end, since MS fixed the Search bar problem in 2004. (Apparently related to MS moving Cortana out from the Search function. (I am finding that Cortana and Search are tied to TimeBroker. Disable TimeBroker and you disable both of them.)) And 2004 has a Hardware Scheduler which now works with Nvidia GPU's.)

For anyone interested, here are some of the things that I tried:

First, since 2004 allowed me to keep my files during a Refresh of my older 1909, I thought that perhaps I could find (and then hack) the one file (assuming there was only one) that had allowed me to keep my files when I used 2004 to do a Host Refresh.

So I started to copy parts of a 2004 wim over to the folder containing the newer 1909 wim, testing each time (by running setup.exe) to see if any new file would allow me to keep my files during setup.

Interestingly, the file dates for the last (newest) 1909 were 10/7/2020, and the dates for 2004 were 10/8/2020.

Copying the boot folder didn't make a difference. Copying exe's from Source didn't make a difference. I finally found that setupplatform.dll was a critical file.

I was hoping that maybe I could hack that with a hex editor, but I never got around that trying that.

I also thought that perhaps I could find a difference in the xml configure files between the two wim's and hack one of those to work. (Would have been many hours with WinMerge, comparing files.)

I changed plans and tried to find what differences there were between my old 1909 and my new 1909 that allowed the latter to refresh over itself.

So I pulled up regedit from both (a vanilla install of new 1909 running in a VM) and searched for "1909." I found slight differences between them. My old 1909 ended with .488 in the Registry. Whereas my new 1909 had 1139 instead. Plus some other different numbers related to version when I saw them nearby.

So I changed all the build numbers (or whatever they're called) in the Registry of my old 1909 to match the new 1909, hoping that it would look like the newer 1909 and trick new 1909 into letting me keep my files during a Host Refresh.

Surprisingly, that didn't work.

Perhaps I missed one. Or perhaps build numbers are also in hex in the Registry.

Another interesting thing I noticed during all this is that both old 1909, new 1909 and 2004 have an update called "Feature Update to Windows 10 20H2 via Enablement Package" (dated 9/27/2020) in them.
 
Actually, since I'm telling "War Stories," I spent the first few hours last night swapping out my NVME drive for the old spinning drive that was in place when I originally updated from 1903 to 1909. I did this because I notice when I drop to UEFI to do images, there is a different enumeration of my NVME drive. It moves to the last drive in sequence. Whereas a running Windows shows it as first.

So, since the error message that Setup gives (about why it won't let me keep my files and apps during a Refresh) say that my program files appear to be in the wrong location, I thought perhaps my problem was due to some low level drive enumeration difference.

So I imaged my running 1909 to a spinning drive and put that in my box and tried things for a few hours.
 
why did you have to update to 1909 in the 1st place, cant you stick to 1903, update and capture that?

Windows 10 update history - Microsoft Support

Learn more about updates for Windows 10 version 1903, including improvement and fixes, any known issues, and how to get the update.
support.microsoft.com support.microsoft.com

1903 and 1909 iso's are availible.
 

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Yeah, that's one of the tools that I used to get a later iso.

My Dell box came with 1903. It didn't come with a re-install DVD, nor a Recovery image on the Hard Drive. It was used, and the shop that sold them were re-imaging them, with Dell drivers and mostly debloated. So while that was a plus, there wasn't any way to Refresh with 1903. (I think that I tried it, and ran into the same "can't keep files and apps" problem.) It turned out that 1909 worked. And I had heard that 1909 was basically a SP2 version of 1903. So I thought it would be okay to update/refresh.
 
ahh yes, the dell box for the igpu, i remember now. if you are going to do a build that wont be updated then you wont need refresh. build an updated 1903 or 9, install and capture as per pm. i'll tell ya how to kludge windows update so that it wont update unless you want it to.
remember that old trick we used for Power Run? :cool:
 
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