Help - My Win 10 1809 installs aren't creating a BCD Store

G

Ghred

New Member
I'm truly baffled by this situation: After installing 64-bit Windows 10 Pro 1809, no BCD store is present. I've tried installing Win 10, from scratch, using three different install ISOs created with NTLite, but none of them have a BCD store after I'm done. I realize that the Boot folder in the root is hidden, but even after changing the explorer setting to view all hidden and system files/folders, it's just not there.

Now, I'm certainly not blaming NTLite, of course. Instead, I figure I inadvertently removed something during the customization process that I shouldn't have, but I have no idea what that could have been. Does anyone know what that might be?

Of course I could try installing the unmodified Windows 10 installation media, but I really, really don't want all that horrible bloatware, especially the entire Metro Apps interface crap!

So I'd really appreciate some help with this. I'm certainly no expert in NTLite or Windows 10 deployment!

Thanks!
 
Are you installing in an unformated drive?
Did you checked in Computer (right click and option) Manage - Storage - Disk management if there is the boot partition?
 
Hey, thanks for your quick reply, Kasual!

Kasual said:
Are you installing in an unformated drive?
Click to expand...

No, I pre-formatted it as NTFS. Was that a mistake?

Kasual said:
Did you checked in Computer (right click and option) Manage - Storage - Disk management if there is the boot partition?
Click to expand...

No, I didn't know to check that. I will do that next time, but at the moment that system will not boot.

I should add that all my systems can multi-boot into either Win 7 or Win 10, and I want this system to do that also. To accomplish that, I've been using TeraByte's BootIt Bare Metal (BIBM), a product I'm a huge fan of and have been using for decades. What I do is install the OS completely and make sure it boots properly. Then I reboot and install Bare Metal and reboot again. Every previous time, including when I installed previous versions of Windows 10, BIBM loads and then I ensure that the BCD store has all the correct parameters. But every time I try this with Win 10 1809, BIBM reports that No BCD Store exists, so I can't continue.

I've tried creating a fresh BCD store using the BCDEdit and the related commands, but when I then reboot, I get "NTLDR is missing" or No Operating System found. I guess I must not have built the BCD correctly, which is why I'm asking why my installs aren't creating one for me.

Thanks!
 
Ghred said:
No, I pre-formatted it as NTFS. Was that a mistake?

What I do is install the OS completely and make sure it boots properly. Then I reboot and install Bare Metal and reboot again.
Click to expand...

If you install the OS and boots ok, there is no issues on install.
If you create one partition using all the drive, then the boot partition isn't created.

When there is only one partition, the boot folder and files are located in \Windows instead, if this is the case, your software could not detect the Wondows partition and only works with the boot partition if it exist.

In disk management you can see the boot partition if it exist and detected as "Correct (System, Active, Primary partition)".
 
Kasual said:
If you install the OS and boots ok, there is no issues on install.
If you create one partition using all the drive, then the boot partition isn't created.

When there is only one partition, the boot folder and files are located in \Windows instead, if this is the case, your software could not detect the Wondows partition and only works with the boot partition if it exist.

In disk management you can see the boot partition if it exist and detected as "Correct (System, Active, Primary partition)".
Click to expand...

I create two partitions total on the target drive: The first is a blank 32 MB FAT32 partition which will eventually hold BIBM. The entirety of the rest of the available space, 111 GB, is formatted as NTFS but otherwise empty.

So if I understand you correctly, either (1): the Win 10 installation built the boot partition into that 32 MB FAT32 space and I unintentionally destroyed it when I installed BIBM in that space, -OR- (2): the BCD store was created in \Windows, which isn't where BIBM was expecting to find it.

That is extremely valuable information, Kasual! Wow - Thanks!

So I'm now going to try it from scratch again, but this time, after the installation and reboot, I'll go into Disk Management and look for a boot partition, which if it exists will probably be located in that first 32 MB partition. In that case, I'll install BIBM in some OTHER partition to avoid clobbering the boot partition.

And if there is no boot partition, the BCD store will be located in \Windows. In that case, what are your thoughts about me copying the BCD store from /Windows to /Boot so that BIBM can locate in the expected location? Of course, I'd need to know the correct paths of the BCD. Would that be C:\Windows\Boot?

What say you, kind expert?
 
Well, I'm going to get started right now. I'll be far more careful this time, and I'll report back on what I've learned BEFORE I try to install BIBM.

You have been exceptionally helpful!
 
I think your best bet is to Create the first primary partition as FAT32 if BIBM don't support NTFS, Windows 7(and probably 8) creates 2 partitions (100 MB the first for boot exclusive) and Win 10 creates 4 i think (WinRE excluded).
 
8.1 creates a 350MB NTFS boot partition. Sometimes a boot partition isnt created, i have been doing installs with all hard drives connected, ive only noticed this with crucial ssd's for c drive. Disconnect everything except the intended c drive and the install drive, usb key or optical drive. Ive only done it manually, never automated.
 
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Thanks to you both!

Here's where I am: I first deleted all partitions on the target SSD drive, and left the entire drive unformatted. Then I installed Win 10 1809, which worked perfectly. When I booted up (successfully), I used Disk Management to take a look at all partitions on the target. There was only one; no separate boot partition.

The BCD store was indeed created where Kasual expected: C:\Windows\Boot

As I promised, I haven't installed BIBM yet. My plan now is to boot up Acronis Disk Director 12.5 from a flash drive. That tool easily allows me to move the existing Windows 10 partition down a bit (32 MB), after which I'll create a new FAT32 partition there.

But I don't plan to install BIBM there immediately. Instead I'm first going to boot Win 10 normally and install EasyBCD, then see what it shows about the BCD store. If I'm uncertain about what it shows me, I'll boot Win 10 in Safe Mode with Command Prompt and use the bcdedit command passively to see what it says about the BCD.

Then I'll report back...
 
Setup is pretty basic which is probably by design, its nigh on impossible to screw up. Unfortunately you cannot do a Full format anymore, it does a quick format only and if it see's 2 partitions that you previously created its not intelligent enough to use the 1st smaller one for the boot files. You only get a choice, install to a single existing or create both if there is no existing or you delete it then create a new, where you get the message.

I dont know how PE works bbut you may get more options using that instead. To be honest i have never had a problem with windows quick formatting C during 7 8.1 and 10(1609) setups and i dont think i ever had a problem quick formatting c in xp setup either.
 
Hmm... EasyBCD shows the following:

There are a total of 2 entries listed in the bootloader.

Default: Windows 10
Timeout: None
Boot Drive: E:\

Entry #1
Name: Windows 10
BCD ID: {current}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe

Entry #2
Name: SSD2 Win 7 - 18-Nov-18
BCD ID: {bf05d1a1-f1c6-11e8-bf3c-74d02b90a2c2}
Drive: E:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
Click to expand...

I have no idea why that default entry shows "Windows 10" yet incorrectly points to drive E:, which is a Windows 7 system on an entirely different disk drive (i.e., it is not on the same SSD as Windows 10 at all).

Also, I found four files named "BCD", two of which don't seem relevant (they're both deep in Windows\WinSxS) The remaining two paths are:
C:\Windows\Boot\DVD\EFI
and
C:\Windows\Boot\DVD\PCAT

Therefore, once I install BIBM, if it doesn't find the BCD because it couldn't find a C:\Boot folder, what do you suggest I do? I was thinking I'd copy the correct BCD file and enclosing directory to C:\Boot, but I don't know which BCD file/folder to choose as the source.

Well, I see there's another reply waiting, so I'll see what it says...
 
Ive never messed around with boot files with 7+, fiddled a bit with xp. Boot files being at the beginning of a drive only matters if you are using a hdd, if you are using an sdd then i wouldnt worry because the read and seek times are so damn fast so if you prefer to full format create the main partition in advance, i doubt you will see any difference if usingan ssd.
 
Well, I tried to install BIBM, but once again it complained that no BCD store existed. Fortunately, I could still boot into this new Win 10 system, as long as I ensured that the first disk in the BIOS boot order was the drive with Win 7 installed rather than the new Win 10 SSD.

Thus, it seems that BIBM adamantly requires that a system's BCD store be present in C:\Boot. So I'll have to copy it there and ensure the file BCD exists directly under C:\Boot rather than in a deeper folder as it currently does under C:\Windows. But I don't know what folder to use as the source, so what do you recommend?
 
Its probably expecting boot to be on its own partition and may not accept anywhere else. Read BIBMs documentation and its support forum if it has one.
 
I've learned that, if allowed, Windows will put boot info on the first partition, even if you're installing Windows on,say, a third partition.

What I do - and kudos goes to Terabyte Unlimited for this info (makers of BootitNG and Bootit BareMetal ) - is to make 4 primary partitions on my primary drive. (This is with MBR, where only four primaries are allowed. I don't know what happens if you use GPT.) Then I hide partitions 1 and 2 and install a new Windows on partition 3. (I think hiding the partitions isn't really necessary. But it makes me feel better when installing a new OS.)

Since Windows can't create any more primary partitions, then only partition 3 is considered the "System Partition" when this OS is running. (Whereas, if you don't play this trick, then you can sometimes see Partition 1 considered as a System Partition, even though you're running the OS in Partition 3.)

I use GAG - which is MBR only and resides in Sector 0 - to boot into the different OS's. I suppose that one could make the first partition a small one and put GRUB (or equivalent) there to boot into partitions after that. (Which, as I reread this thread, I see is what the OP has done, using Bootit BM.)
 
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