Necrosaro
Active Member
If things are not being consistent then something is happening in the background during those tests that is causing it. Mine is usually very consistent but that's just me and your mileage will vary
Discussion: NVIDIA Display Driver (nvlddmkm.sys) DPC Latency
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I don't want to go super offtopic so I'll just try to also include useful observations, too.
In general I've noticed that Windows 11 feels laggier, less responsive and in general bulkier than what I remember with Windows 10. I've also read it somewhere that the inherit latency of 11 is worse than 10.
Which is also similarly true to all new hardware I've had throughout the years. I'm just feeling like losing some responsiveness with each bit of new hardware. I don't remember it being like this 10-15 years ago. I remember when my PC could boot within seconds, now it's more like a minute again with an almost 6 GHz CPU, blazing fast RAM and storage. I've never in my life had any latency issues with anything. Computer hardware and software costs crazy amounts of money nowadays and when you think you're paying for more, the difference is not as apparent as before, or well, it is, just not in the right direction. I've just built this new PC 2 months ago that surpasses my previous one in every aspect yet I'm here stuck with this latency issue (and I could immediately say 2-3 similar new mystery issues that I didn't have with my previous build).
Are we really going backwards now?
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Necrosaro
Active Member
I am on the other spectrum of this. Windows 11 felt better then windows 10 but not in vanilla format. After cleaning out with Ntlite it's faster for me then 10 was for some reason.I don't want to go super offtopic so I'll just try to also include useful observations, too.
In general I've noticed that Windows 11 feels laggier, less responsive and in general bulkier than what I remember with Windows 10. I've also read it somewhere that the inherit latency of 11 is worse than 10.
Which is also similarly true to all new hardware I've had throughout the years. I'm just feeling like losing some responsivity with each bit of new hardware. I don't remember it being like this 10-15 years ago. I remember when my PC could boot within seconds, now it's more like a minute again with an almost 6 GHz CPU, blazing fast RAM and storage. I've never in my life had any latency issues with anything. Computer hardware and software costs crazy amounts of money nowadays and when you think you're paying for more, the difference is not as apparent as before, or well, it is, just not in the right direction. I've just built this new PC 2 months ago that surpasses my previous one in every aspect yet I'm here stuck with this latency issue (and I could immediately say 2-3 similar new mystery issues that I didn't have with my previous build).
Are we really going backwards now?
I also have old hardware (some parts as old as 11 years). Computer boots up extremely fast and flatlines almost after boot. I am not saying it to be a windows fanboy but the bones are there for a great operating system. Also it has grown considerably over the years which I dislike but know why there is a reason for it. Windows is like school in the fact it gives you everything even if you don't need or want.
That is why I love ntlite so much for it's ability to clean what I don't want and keep what I do want.
If I could go back to windows 98 or 2000 days just updated with modern conveniences then I certainly would....alas that may never happen.
Yeah, I'm not sure it's Windows, maybe it's hardware and drivers. I legitimately hate what manufacturers are doing with the software accompanying their hardware for a long time - the most advanced computer parts come with experimental baby software that's always broken and incomplete. The same is true for drivers - new versions bring new problems while rarely solving old ones. I don't want to get into a long arse rant here but this is what can be also seen in gaming nowadays - it's just generally accepted and okay now to sell alpha and beta versions and "complete" it afterwards in the coming years.
To also be on topic: I genuinely feel like most of my troubles are coming from my motherboard. Even though it's a high-end Asus board I've already had a plethora of troubles with it (audio driver issues, occasional boot instability pre-POST, ethernet sometimes automatically switching to 100mbps instead of a gigabit connection, etc. - i couldn't fix any of these btw) and I'm almost certain that this kind of nihilistic approach to creating computer products also means drivers and other important codes running are just in a crappy state, contributing to my latency woes.
Necrosaro
Active Member
My Asus Sabertooth 990fx r2 has been bulletproof. I find Asus and intel have there fair share of issues but in all my days Asus/Amd has been solid(knock on wood). Build lots for family,friends,myself. Maybe just lucky haha
Maybe I'm just stupid for preferring Intel without ever trying AMD but I've legitimately built gaming PCs for so long and Intel was the king at that for a very long time - and kinda still is.
Anyways, don't want to spam the thread, so a few more thoughts that could also apply here:
Sometimes I have unexplained bad mouse lags, seemingly nothing happening yet my PC is winding up kinda stuff. Could these also contribute to the latency issues?
Necrosaro
Active Member
I stuck with AMD even in the worse of times for the company because I hated having issues and the combo has brought me nothing but success. Each to there own.
Not a fanboy just want what works well, same goes for Nvidia/Amd video cards and so forth with other companies for parts
Hellbovine
Well-Known Member
Windows has tons of dynamic tasks it runs at different times. For example, there's over 100 scheduled tasks that trigger at different dates, times, and on different events. And then there's even scheduled events that occur from the registry too. In W10 (not sure yet how W11 handles this one), but SMB file sharing is installed by default. It's not used by most home users though and so it detects how many reboots the system has had without utilizing this service. If 3 reboots pass without it being used then Windows uninstalls it. I could be missing some detail, like maybe it has a secondary check too, but it doesn't really matter, the point I'm making is there's a lot of background activity in modern Windows that kicks off all the time, even while the computer is undergoing heavy usage.
Ontop of that, there's even bugs at play too that haven't been entirely fixed over the years. Indexer and sysmain for example have both been thoroughly documented to eat up 100% cpu while you are doing a heavy task, such as playing a game, and have either a memory leak or a bug in the code that causes literally all ram to be consumed until the computer crashes. I don't think the problem here is LatencyMon, but rather just the complex beast that Windows has become. So much of this activity happens without the user knowing which can lead to all these mysteries.
There's some other concerns here too, your LatencyMon shows that WMI sees your processor as only being 30 Mhz, while the registry sees it as 2995. If you go into your bios and start disabling the features causing this, such as Speed Step, and all the other related settings such as Hyperthreading and so forth, you'll very likely see noticeable DPC improvements, as well as the Mhz rating changing in LatencyMon. I'm not saying this is like an across the board fix for everyone, but is stuff that should be investigated at least. DPC issues start in the BIOS first, then it's drivers responsible secondarily, then Windows third.
Thank you, this is really informative.
To be honest, I haven't really cared about SpeedStep and HT so far because I was under the impression that as long as you choose the High Performance Power Plan in Windows you wouldn't need to worry about CPU-related latency stuff. But now I'll definitely try this.
Hellbovine
Well-Known Member
I should have added onto the last post that if you are finding that 22H2 seems a bit heavy and may be interfering, take a look at this thread (link) since it might be due to a bug.
Even if you're not using 22H2, try out the bat file and read the information next to it. Before you run the bat file, bring up task manager and write down the following information from the tabs: Handles / Threads / Processes / Memory. Then run the bat file, wait until it automatically exits the command prompt after it's finished, and then reboot and check task manager afterwards to compare. Basically this forces Windows to run through all of it's background activity and then also tells it to calm down for a few reboots. It should help to make benchmarking a more consistant.
Also, you can disable your network adapters in Windows to get Windows to stop trying to communicate with the outside world, which will also have a noticeable affect on any kind of benchmarking, especially DPC since networks are a common source of DPC issues.
Let me be very clear, I'm not saying the bat file is some sort of miracle tweak, it's just a tool that Microsoft created for this very purpose (benchmarking). A tool helps us accomplish things, it shouldn't be viewed as a gaming peformance enhancer.
Even if you're not using 22H2, try out the bat file and read the information next to it. Before you run the bat file, bring up task manager and write down the following information from the tabs: Handles / Threads / Processes / Memory. Then run the bat file, wait until it automatically exits the command prompt after it's finished, and then reboot and check task manager afterwards to compare. Basically this forces Windows to run through all of it's background activity and then also tells it to calm down for a few reboots. It should help to make benchmarking a more consistant.
Also, you can disable your network adapters in Windows to get Windows to stop trying to communicate with the outside world, which will also have a noticeable affect on any kind of benchmarking, especially DPC since networks are a common source of DPC issues.
Let me be very clear, I'm not saying the bat file is some sort of miracle tweak, it's just a tool that Microsoft created for this very purpose (benchmarking). A tool helps us accomplish things, it shouldn't be viewed as a gaming peformance enhancer.
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which tool is that? the affinity one?
Okay guys, I may have found something. I'm still testing it but I'd encourage the craftier, more patient and able of you to also see how it works for you.
I ran into a software called Intelligent standby list cleaner. As it states, it "will monitor and clear the memory standby list according the configured options parameter you set."
I decided to give it a try on Win 11, started it with a 0.5ms timer resolution but it didn't matter because I didn't wait and simply clicked Purge Standby list. And lo and behold, all latencies immediately dropped for me. I still got some higher spikes, but!!! not from Nvidia drivers but Windows stuff and so far it just seems to have done something. Since I'm getting inconsistent results out of LatencyMon it very well could be a placebo, too.
Give it a go and let's see how it works out for you
I ran into a software called Intelligent standby list cleaner. As it states, it "will monitor and clear the memory standby list according the configured options parameter you set."
I decided to give it a try on Win 11, started it with a 0.5ms timer resolution but it didn't matter because I didn't wait and simply clicked Purge Standby list. And lo and behold, all latencies immediately dropped for me. I still got some higher spikes, but!!! not from Nvidia drivers but Windows stuff and so far it just seems to have done something. Since I'm getting inconsistent results out of LatencyMon it very well could be a placebo, too.
Give it a go and let's see how it works out for you
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Necrosaro
Active Member
Heard of this tool, used it before and it caused more problems then good for me.Okay guys, I may have found something. I'm still testing it but I'd encourage the craftier, more patient and able of you to also see how it works for you.
I ran into a software called Intelligent standby list cleaner. As it states, it "will monitor and clear the memory standby list according the configured options parameter you set."
I started it with a 0.5ms timer resolution but it didn't matter because I didn't wait and simply clicked Purge Standby list. And lo and behold, all latencies immediately dropped for me. I still got some higher spikes, but!!! not from Nvidia drivers but Windows stuff and so far it just seems to have done something. Since I'm getting inconsistent results out of LatencyMon it very well could be a placebo, too.
Give it a go and let's see how it works out for you
How so?
To be fair I've tried it on Windows 11, should have said that, sorry.
Necrosaro
Active Member
Issues with movies and games, abnormal stuttering when on
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