ZEFIR001
New Member
actually the win build is pretty good,but the person himself and his advices - yea....oh noes, he said FR33THY -- lol.
actually the win build is pretty good,but the person himself and his advices - yea....oh noes, he said FR33THY -- lol.
hi guys! I have too this problem of high latency. I used LatencyMon and I see with nvidia driver a latency between 3000ms and 9000ms, with Wdf01000.sys 11000ms (and also a lot of ISR Count) and of course dxgkrnl.sys the same.Today me and glxxmybxy tried to fix his wdf01000 and nvlddmkm issues on his system but unfortunatelly didnt get to the great results.
First of all he use official windows build with a lot of things done wrong like using online microsoft account with windows hello services and other useless services enabled. He have a lot of different software installed like NZXT controll center etc. We tried to install 441.41 driver on his rtx 3090 but no success,even with INF modding it gives error 43. He tried to apply my deadly dword tweak on 527 driver and it didnt change anything.
We checked the IRQ conficts and other things,everything was setup fine,but his wdf01000 gives not thousands but millions of ISR's. So now im starting to think what 3rd party devices and usb peripherals could really impact wdf01000 and nvlddmkm like Hellbovine said.
In conclusion :
I did recommend him to clean install NTLITE windows build 22h2 by FR33THY and start installing drivers manually one by one.
We'll see how it goes,anyway every day we get closer and closer to solving this,step by step.
I totally agree the fact that it's probably beyond our control. But I will continue to test and try until I'll find a good position. So I will try to install an Optimized Image following your guide as first step. thanksI'm in a rush this morning so I'm gonna throw all this text on here and don't have time to clean it up. But I don't want to forget anything so I want to pass it along since I may be unable to work on things for a while, due to real life being busy and wife is yelling at me right now to hurry up so we can run errands lol.
INTRODUCTION
I worked on this quite a bit last night, I felt like I made progress, but it just continues to affirm that I don't think it's something we can fix. While we can of course reduce and fix DPC in general by tweaking Windows and identifying bad drivers and trying other versions, etcetera, I think this Nvidia+OS is likely not going away until it's patched by those companies.
This problem is actually extremely rampant, like here's how bad it is: Not only did this thread manage to reach the first page in the NTLite "General" forum in 5 months due to so many views, but if you type in "nvlddmkm" into Google this thread here is now on the first page and is rank 8. When I went to bed last night it was rank 10.
Anyone that knows about SEO (search engine optimization) knows that it is extremely difficult to reach page 1 on Google, there are a lot of factors (literally 200+) that go into it, and this NTLite thread managed to do it in a very short time period, beating out all the other forums and sites that discuss the issue which have been posted for many years.
TESTING
What I was looking at last night was ProcMon (from sysinternals) and I set it up so that I would run LatencyMon and then start logging in ProcMon, and as soon as an Nvidia spike occurred I would stop the logger and then try to identify what happened in background acitivity (files being written, threads opened/closed, registry keys queried) that correlated to the spike. I did this about 50 times trying to isolate the issue.
The result was that nearly every time Nvidia spikes, the Lsass.exe and DWM (Desktop Windows Management) are kicking in. This isn't a sure thing though, because these 2 items are running all the time, so it could be coincidence. Further tests are needed. If they are the problem, then this is probably bad for us. Lsass.exe is a critical component you can't manhandle without serious consequences, and it's why viruses targeted it in past years. DWM started in Windows Vista. Somewhere along the line apparently DWM now enforces Vsync on the Windows Desktop too, and DWM as well as the Vsync change is when people started experiencing issues with latency.
Vsync by nature is something that adds latency, so it makes sense if it is a contributing factor, and additionally helps explain why the FSE (full screen exclusive) and borderless changes to Windows started causing poor gaming performance in W10 and W11. So maybe the real key is in FSE/FSB which is handled in the Xbox registry. Xbox is actually the wrong word, Microsoft should not have labeled it that way because it isn't xbox related at all.
Lsass.exe is it's own DPC nightmare because it's stack is huge, and it just handles so much stuff. Together, it makes sense why these 2 things would cause spikes. How to fix it though? I don't know that we can. We can investigate every single file inside the Lsass stack and try to figure out which ones are tweakable and see if we can fix the problem, but this is really something Microsoft/Nvidia need to do.
DWM on the other hand can be tweaked to a fair degree. You cannot straight up disable it though without it breaking desktop/taskbar components however. But I think the reason I have good latency (without the Nvidia driver installed) is largely in part because of the way I tweak my DWM settings, which is much different than how everyone else does. This is theory though, I haven't had time to remove my tweaks and compare yet, since I added those tweaks as a fix to different issues in Windows and DPC wasn't the motivation.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
If anyone wants to experiment with my DWM method, I have a post on it already here.
For anyone having general DPC issues that aren't coming from Nvidia, I would strongly urge them to give my optimized image guide a try, and see how that install works in comparison. It's a very "safe" image that does not break anything at all, it was specifically designed to be "for everyone". I know on this forum we tend to say "there is no one size fits all" but this image was designed to be one size fits all. I approached it in a way that was entirely "official". Meaning, Microsoft could have made these changes, and it doesn't include any snakeoil, or any controversial stuff with perhaps the exception of pagefile (it's disabled, but you can easily enable it again). My DWM changes are included in that, as well as my power plan which is better than high/ultimate/bitsum combined.
Lastly, at this point I think the right way to solve this is for as many people as we can get to go file support tickets with Nvidia, as well as Microsoft (you can use FeedBack Hub to do it from the start menu), and link to this thread in your report. I would then urge everyone to contact all the computer/gaming news article sites and link this thread too. I already did all 3 of these, I contacted 20 news sites and none of them responded.
Which operating system is best for gaming is subjective to each person's needs. Once cleaned out with Ntlite I found windows 11 better then a clean out Ntlite windows 10.I totally agree the fact that it's probably beyond our control. But I will continue to test and try until I'll find a good position. So I will try to install an Optimized Image following your guide as first step. thanks
p.s. can I ask which Windows version is better for gaming?
thanks for the answer. maybe I expressed badly my question. I meant which Windows update version, not only W11 vs W10. For me it's not a question of each person's needs, at most it might change based on your hardware but I thinks that there is a version that is better for gaming purpose.Which operating system is best for gaming is subjective to each person's needs. Once cleaned out with Ntlite I found windows 11 better then a clean out Ntlite windows 10.
I had more issues with windows 10 for some weird reason then 11 for most of my stuff I do(this isn't just because it is newer it just worked better for me)
thanks for the answer. maybe I expressed badly my question. I meant which Windows update version, not only W11 vs W10. For me it's not a question of each person's needs, at most it might change based on your hardware but I thinks that there is a version that is better for gaming purpose.
Yes of course. For example I think it is indisputable that windows 11 has many problems with amd processor and I was wondering if there is a windows 10 version like 21h2 or 20h2. I ask this just because reading this 3D I see many people saying that maybe there was a old version of windows 10 that gives less troubles on gaming, regarding also driver and DCP latency.Everyone as a rule has their own opinion on which is a better OS for gaming. i don't really know what you mean by which update version.... the update version doesnt really matter to the majority of us who game unless there are issues, but those issues can always be down to an individual case or build.
Its already known pretty much by everyone. Great guide but i think author underestimate AMD power. Im confident it is possible to squeeze great latency from modern Ryzen CPU's,it just needs different reach.btw I found this interesting paper about latency: CALYPTO's LATENCY
take a look
Can you make a run of 5 minutes.....a lot can happen in that time.Its already known pretty much by everyone. Great guide but i think author underestimate AMD power. Im confident it is possible to squeeze great latency from modern Ryzen CPU's,it just needs different reach.
My old screenshots is perfect example.
I guess i should push FCLK to 2000 and memory to 4000mhz,that way i could "breathe in the back" of Intel.
This is what I posted the other day alreadyIf anyone is having issues with ntoskrnl.exe latency there is now a fix that works well. What needs to happen is download powersettingsexplorer and open it up. What it will do is unlock additional power options in your power settings.
Go down the list and make sure processor idle denote threshold and processor idle promote threshold is unchecked. Then open your control panel and go into your power settings and advanced. Processor should now have two additional settings. Changed those to 100 percent for both and restart. Try again and see if it fixed the issue for you.
power optimised.reg didnt break brick or bugger up my w7, nvidia was still spiking over 500 though.Look at that folder I uploaded for Clanger,
That's good to know. It wasn't designed for older OS's, but it makes sense according to what I've read in Microsoft documentation. I think the way they tackled that registry tree is that they keep adding keys to it over time, while keeping the older ones. So you could probably even apply that reg to like XP or Vista and it'll be okay. I could be wrong obviously since I haven't tested that aspect, but I think if you export the power tree on the older OS's they probably just have many less options, meaning a bunch of the new ones you applied to W7 just don't *do* anything, good or bad.power optimised.reg didnt break brick or bugger up my w7.